Secrets to Scaling B2B Tech with John Watton

PLEASE NOTE: This transcript has been created using fireflies.ai – a transcription service. It has not been edited by a human and therefore may contain mistakes. 

00:03
Dom Hawes
Welcome back to Unicorny, the antidote to post rationalized business books. This is the podcast for senior executives who want to find out how other businesses are building value through marketing.

Last week on Unicorny, I was joined by cohost Samantha Losey, managing director of multi award winning comms consultancy Unity. And we interviewed Jordan Gillot and Lauren Berkemeyer from YuLife, and together we talked about how to build a data driven growth machine. In our conversation, Jordan and Lauren detailed how they designed their growth machine, how they used the model, the tech that supports it, and the data it delivers to ensure relevance. We also discussed the double edged sword of tracking, and the guests explained why being agile is key. If you want to thrive over the next twelve months, go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. It's a belt, sir. Given all that's happening in the world right now, the only thing business leaders and companies are dead certain of is that the period of great uncertainty is far from over. We all know what happened three years ago, so we don't need to mention the dreaded P word.

And by the way, that P isn't politics. Yeah, okay, look, this is not a politics show, so we're also not going to talk about Downing Street Europe or anything beyond that either. But what we are going to say is that across all sectors right now, businesses are getting leaner, belts are being tightened, and revenues are shrinking. But it doesn't mean that it has to happen to you. So if you work in the tech B2B, or better yet, if you're a founder or an MD, you're going to want to turn up the volume on this one. You're going to want to perk your ears up because we're going to die. Dive in to how to scale your business right here and right now, and we're going to do it with one of the shining stars of B2B marketing. Joining me as cohost today is the human Google of strategy, Adam Greener from Digital Radish.

01:55
Dom Hawes
He'll already be familiar to you if you are a dedicated Unicorner. But if you need a quick refresh, Adam is Associate Director at Digital Radish, a multiaward winning marketing and ABM agency that specializes in working with and high growth B2B businesses. And together we're going to be interviewing John Watton. Now, previously, John was Senior Director for Global Marketing at Adobe. He was also Director of Global Marketing for Expedia. He's worked for the Octopus group. Microsoft. You know, I could continue with his resume. I mean, he's literally been there and done it. The present day no exception. Currently, John is VP of Marketing for VMware Goliath, an American cloud computing and virtualization tech company. They're a leading provider of multicloud services for apps, enabling digital innovation with enterprise control. Their revenue is in the billions, and they are at the forefront of the digital frontier.

02:46
Dom Hawes
So John knows his onions when it comes to marketing and scaling a business. And that's what we're going to dive right into. We're going to talk about what you need to think about when building an integrated revenue generation engine. We talk about the pros and cons of first and third party data when building one, two. We also talk about the importance of place in marketing. And later in the show you'll hear us discuss what's happening in the talent market right now and what kind of talent you need in hungry and innovative marketing team today. This show was recorded on the 18 November 2022. Now let's get stuck in.

03:20
Dom Hawes
Hi, John. Welcome to Unicorny. Why don't you please introduce yourself to the Unicorn audience?

03:25
John Watton
I'm VP of Marketing for Europe, Middle East and Africa. For VMware, I've had a career now in B2B marketing. I've been lucky enough to work at a number of exciting and progressive companies, many known to many people like Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe, SAP, and also some smaller businesses trying to create new categories or do things differently in maybe more niche sectors. So, yeah, at VMware, I look after the European Marketing. That's a team of about 100 people across the region. It's all corners of EMEA so from Saharan Africa through to Eastern Europe and everything in between, driving effectively awareness for VMware and also for building demand for VMware. So, delighted to be here.

04:08
Dom Hawes
I'm very excited about what you're bringing to the Unicorny Project. We've talked around some of the issues with fast scaling businesses before, but we've not actually addressed how to scale so directly. And when were discussing this episode on our first meeting, I was really quite taken with your observation that marketing teams haven't been great at actually integrating the marketing activities, about thinking about customer journeys, about running integrated programs. They've mainly focused instead on great quality standalone activities, and many of those have been events. So to me, the past sounds kind of a little stop start. What do you think a better future looks like?

04:47
John Watton
Absolutely. What I found with B2B marketing teams is they have been really good, as you say, at execution. So that is typically the skills that we've been looking for in the past. I think one of the things that's really critical now for marketing teams is to effectively forward fill their organization with the right talent to take them to the next phase. So what we did in the past is not necessarily what we need to do with the future. And I think what has driven the change and the need is a number of things that happened over the last five to ten years, going back a little while. For example, data wasn't so accessible for us in marketing, so it was very hard for us to measure a lot of what we did. So went on really a quality and execution kind of measurement where we felt we got to the right audience telling the right story.

05:30
John Watton
But there was no real objective way to measure that. That's all changed. As we know, data is coming out of ears now. We can measure everything, we can measure anything. And probably now the question is what should we measure and what should we focus on? That's the first thing. So I think the other thing that has happened and probably more importantly is our customers themselves are changing the way that they interact with us. So they are definitely creating a more complex buyer journey. They're dealing with us on different touch points. They're more comfortable now dealing in social, in digital and probably more importantly, they're looking for more of a self service experience. So they don't want to necessarily talk to someone from your company anymore. They'd rather drive some of their experience themselves. They want a low touch or no touch experience. And also they have infinite information at their fingertips which they can get to milliseconds.

06:20
John Watton
So they can also find out what they need without having to talk to the organization. Which means that we need to think more about the complete customer journey and how we deliver that great customer experience. And so as a result in marketing, we need those sorts of skills to drive the future forward.

06:36
Adam Greener
We've been talking about marketing, but I know that you have a background in building what we call the revenue engine. So that's where we look at sales and marketing and product. What do you think that looks like moving into the future when we're thinking about the customer as the central focus, but at the same time that's quite an internal looking thing.

06:53
John Watton
Well, those old adages that we've all grown up with are still true today in this digital and social age. So it is about understanding the customer. You always need to think about what is it the customer needs, not what we want to do as a business. And the other old adage as well is marketing is the voice of the customer. And I think in this execution kind of mode where we've been doing brilliant things and trying to connect with customers pre pandemic, mostly physical events, but I think we've really evolved and accelerated the evolution in the last few years. We've kind of divested that responsibility and just focused on execution. It's now time for us to grab that back. So I think absolutely we can bring a lot of the understanding of the customer into the business and be in the glue between not only what we do in terms of building awareness and helping prospective organizations understand the value of what we do, but also connecting that to products as well.

07:47
John Watton
And we probably focus too much on the one piece of promotion and the kind of mark on side of it. And there is a bigger part that we need to think about in terms of the place, but also the pricing, the packaging and so on. So I think these are all things that we have the opportunity now with data. We have so much insight in terms of customer behavior now more than many other functions because in some companies I've been at, the product is our marketing, right? Because as you move to a software as a service you're getting a better understanding of how customers use your product, what features are being utilized, what they don't like purely by behavior and then you can feed that back into the organization. So definitely I think there's a strong opportunity for us to come together as a growth and the glue for a business and back to those building blocks that's founded on good data insights.

08:38
John Watton
If I were creating a marketing team from scratch, the first function I would hire is marketing operations and someone who can drive the data and insights, that will be the first.

08:46
Dom Hawes
So if we're building a revenue generation engine, step one, get a decent marks person in. Now they're going to be obviously looking at data because they're going to have insights and not ideas. Where are they getting their data from, is that all first party or if you were building from scratch would you be buying in some third party? If you want to build a revenue generation engine after Mops, what comes next?

09:06
John Watton
Firstly, it depends on the situation. I mean you need to build up your first party data understanding your customer, you need a customer data platform, right? So you need some kind of CDP that may be a combination of your CRM 99% of the time at salesforce and or plus a marketing automation platform and so those two together can be a good start to get some sort of basic insight. I'm not saying just hire a Mops person but that would be my pivotal role because those skills are really hard to find and that's a critical hire around that. Then I would have content and then some activation capability. Typically it works the other way. A lot of organizations think about we need an events person, we need an email marketing person so they think about activation first and then maybe think about content a bit further down the line and then we need some operations and some insight.

10:00
John Watton
So it's the other way around, third party data, I mean obviously that's getting harder and harder to access that so that will give you more wider insight especially if you only have your universe of data in your operations platform so of course you're trying to reach the audiences that you don't know. So third party data obviously helps with that and the way you acquire third party data typically is through partnership and so on and you're working with third party events and activities as well to bring that in. So yeah, it's always a mix. I think of first and third party.

10:33
Adam Greener
Data if we think of revenue engine and of course part of that is about how you then scale. Have you ever worked with multidisciplinary teams? Where I'm coming from here is do you ever have sales, product marketing working together in a scrum, for instance? And I'm thinking here about where I would come from. It's almost front to back transformation within your organizations, which is the insight is about the customer, it's at the front, but then you take that right into the back, the heart of your company, which is the operations. And this is a big question, but it's whether or not you feel that nowadays not only is marketing potentially going to lead, but do you feel that there is a structural change needed within your business in general to enable that to happen in the way that you work and then the processes that you take forward?

11:19
John Watton
Yeah, I think so. I mean, you look at how marketing is structured in many organizations I've been in and marketing isn't a single definition, right? For example, some organizations, they have product marketing in marketing. In a lot of organizations, it's in the product group. So the product marketing sits in the product group and then other functions as well, communications and so on. So no marketing team is equal. We definitely work with sales and product in terms of the whole go to market. Right. So, as you say, whether or not we own it in a sort of industrial age kind of hierarchy, or whether we virtually team together, we do work together to think about bringing those insights into the interaction. So we've changed the way we should go to market and our routes to market channel, direct, low touch, no touch, running trials, all those sorts of interactions, thinking about pricing and packaging as well.

12:13
John Watton
We've brought sales and products together and discussions. We may not set the product price in the organization I've been in, but we have worked together on that problem and then we take away the bits that we execute and products and sales kind of executing their thing. So definitely success is about teaming and I've seen that change, right? Marketing used to be like just the sort of outbound communications, crayons and crowns type your team. Now it's very much in that discussion.

12:45
Dom Hawes
I think John's response really highlights the growing importance of marketing in B2B. Last week on the show we spoke to Jordan and Lauren from Ulife and they pointed out how marketing is becoming influential across all other strands of a B2B business like sales or product kind of in a way it hasn't before, even if it should have. You need to integrate your marketing team's insight and creativity right throughout your business because marketing is the most adaptive and agile part of your business. So in periods of uncertainty when you want those traits throughout your wider team, the key might be your marketing people. Might be your marketing people.

13:24
Dom Hawes
You're listening to Unicorny with Dom Hawes powered by Selby Anderson, the marketing group that helps complex businesses win the future.

13:32
Dom Hawes
Coming up, we discuss whether marketing has more of an influence on the customer's lifetime value than before. We also get into the trenches to talk about the war for talent. And I asked John what characteristics he looks for when hiring a marketer. But first, let's get stuck into the importance of place in marketing. Take a listen.

13:53
Dom Hawes
In the discussions and networks in which I mix. One of the most overlooked areas of the marketing mix is place, and we've already covered that a little bit in the first season. We spoke to Adam Morgan about place because his business Premium Credit is highly regulated and 100% intermediated. Well, that's their strategy. As a product vendor, place is also a strategic option, one you need to outline before you can build your revenue generation engine, because how you bring a product to market can affect all of the other pieces product price and promotion. John, you've been at the helm of two big channel transformations at Adobe when you went Direct and now at VMware, where you're rebuilding channel. Before digging into the detail, what do you think the strategic considerations are when you're planning getting a product or service to market?

14:41
John Watton
Adobe was a great example of recognizing that we needed to innovate, to stay up with or stay ahead of the market at the time when were providing software in boxes on the consumer side, it also happened on the business side and then bringing out new product releases every year or two years. So the consideration was how do we make it easier for the customer to firstly, access our product and secondly, to get access to ongoing innovation so that we can innovate our product? Because the market at that point, this is 2012 was accelerating, right, as more and more creative solutions in the Adobe world were being provided online. So there was a strategic imperative to really take back our kind of market leadership and make it a lot easier for the customer. So that's one consideration is are you making it easy for your customers to benefit from all your technology investment?

15:31
John Watton
And so that required Adobe to move Direct and to change the software provisioning model to software as a service and then change the commercial model to be subscription versus every year you buy a copy of Photoshop, it's £800 and it's a new version next year and it's another £800, and so on and so forth. And that's tough, right, because no one's going to like it. The commercial model changes. So the customer is getting to grips with subscriptions, which I think, to be honest, now in 2022, I think everyone's kind of up to speed with subscriptions, but still it's challenging. And we're experiencing the same thing at VMware, where we're moving from a classic licensing to a subscription model. There's always questions and challenges, and it's the same with Adobe, but Adobe disintermediated the channel. So those boxes went through stores or went through distributors and that was very challenging.

16:23
John Watton
But what it is about, it's about different partnerships. So we had purely distribution and reach partnerships. And in the online direct world, you don't need that scale of partners to help you with your reach. So what we work with those partners with then is how do you provide other value to the customer. So typically that's around services and adding in other things and providing local service support as well. So that's a consideration. It's value to the customer. It's how do you get innovation there quickly and how do you better service the customer for their requirements? And at VMware, we're going through a similar thing right now. We are moving to a subscription model. We're moving to a software as a service model. We historically have provided technology products in data centers and now we're moving to providing technology products across clouds. And so again, customers want to see rapid innovation in that space.

17:18
John Watton
So we have to change our model. So there's those considerations to think about the route to market. And some businesses have been very traditionally distribution experienced and some haven't. So that's the first thing. And I think it's also about choice. I mean, for us, we have a direct sales organization, we have a partner community, we have systems integrators, we partner with the big hyperscalers, we partner with other ISVs, other software providers. And our customers don't want to just to have to deal with VMware directly all the time. They have relationships and partnerships that they would like to leverage. So for us it's a combination again of adding value to the customer. But again, from our point of view, it is about leveraging those great businesses to provide them value for their own commercial organizations and extending our reach to those partnerships.

18:14
Dom Hawes
What springs to mind here actually, and this is an old book, but I still think it's genius is Jeffrey Moore's Crossing the Chasm yes. Where he talked about the importance of whole product, actually thinking about your product from the customer's point of view and what are the service and product mix, what is the mix they need to extract best value from the product? And as you're talking about like the transition you're going through VMware right now I'm hearing more in my ears going this is a whole product situation.

18:40
John Watton
Yeah, don't you like it that book that was published in 99 is still valid today. Amazing, isn't it? It's great. And so yeah, it is about that. And a lot of organizations, as things have got more complex and as the way in which we build our products and connect with our customers has got more complex as well. We've kind of built a lot of expertise in silos and now it's all coming back together. So these things were kind of thought about independently kind of promotion, price, packaging, the product, the innovation, and they're now coming back together because we're having a single experience with a customer that we can see. And marketing is evolving as well. And I think that's really interesting. A lot of marketing organizations and ones that I've been involved in have been purely about acquisition. Right. It's a land grab. I'm in high growth software businesses for most of my life.

19:30
John Watton
It's how quickly can we get those customers into our franchise, as it were, and then shown the value ahead of our competition? Because things are moving fast now. It's more about the fuller customer lifecycle and understanding the product as well. Because it's not just great we sign someone up with are they getting the value? We don't recognize commercially the value until they utilize the products. So annual recurring revenue is the big measure for software businesses. So it doesn't matter that we sold 5 million of software. If they don't use any of it doesn't get recognized under sort of SaaS infrastructure. So we have to think about are they getting the value? Are they using it, and will they renew as well? Because it's a three year subscription or annual subscription, or they cancel the subscription like we all can for Netflix. So it's whole product and whole life cycle as well.

20:19
John Watton
So it's those two things together. Absolutely.

20:20
Adam Greener
Do you feel, therefore, that marketing now has far more of an influence on the actual lifetime value of a customer than it ever did before?

20:29
John Watton
Because depending on where you are, the role of marketing is stepping more into, as I say, that motion of in product value sharing. So we've all seen it. Have you tried this feature? Have you tried that function? It's a bit like the Amazon recommendation engine. People have bought this, bought that. It's a bit like that in whatever product, whether you're making it management software, CRM software, creative software. Now we're trying to get the users to understand all these things that they haven't used before. I mean, most software in my career has typically been used to like five or 10% of its maximum potential, right? People don't use all the capability of the solution. Now we have this really exciting opportunity to at least make that aware within real time to the customer. And that's a marketing thing. Now, we at VMware have been looking at the low touch motion, moving to the classic try before you buy trial and then all of the nurturing from free to paid.

21:27
John Watton
So you've tried it, you've liked it. Now sign up. That started as a marketing initiative where we had marketing working to drive that as kind of a classic marketing, let's call it, campaign. It's now developed into more of a product management thing. And the team who have done that are actually now working in our CTO office, working with the product strategy and the product management group and leading that discussion. So it's a great illustration of how marketing's role has transformed to be much more leading the thinking about the product versus running campaigns and promotions.

22:04
Adam Greener
And this is almost about the product itself also becomes a channel for engagement.

22:09
John Watton
Yeah, I mean, my CMO at Adobe always said the product is your marketing, or marketing is the product. You don't need to go out and do necessarily some of the campaigns and programs to try and grab people's attention in very noisy digital feeds and email and so on, where they're using your product. So just help them understand the value in the product versus email and say, hey, there's a new feature. So, yeah, absolutely.

22:29
Adam Greener
That's a lot about lifetime value, I think. But the other side of this, if we flip the coin, is, do you feel that you've also now, within marketing, got far more impact on the acquisition cost of a customer? And what does that look like?

22:41
John Watton
Yeah, now it's not a linear journey anymore. We used to try to say, well, marketing has created this lead. It's therefore sourced this pipeline and it's closed, and we can do a red thread all the way back. It's so hard to do that. So attribution on all those things is really hard. So of course, we look at the acquisition cost. Some customer acquisition is solely by marketing. Some is as you sort of go up the pyramid of companies into enterprises, it's very hard to separate that out because you've got a direct sales organization, a partner organization. The classic thing is marketing come and said, oh, we've acquired this new customer. And the sales said, well, we've been talking to them for five years, and we talked to them in this, and they came to this and they came to that. So it's really hard. But definitely, I think the language we should be using is much more around those objective data points all the way up the funnel, up and down the funnel, from first contact to first commercial agreement, then through to usage and renewal.

23:42
Adam Greener
And do you think any of this can be supported by technology? So the idea that we platform within a business so that sales, product marketing, that data is more available to understand the attribution, as you've said, or is that just a moonshot at the moment that we're aiming for?

23:57
John Watton
Well, my experience of working on any of these things where you try and effectively unintentionally, maybe sort of silo the impact of everyone so classically, this is what marketing has done, this is what sales done, this is whatever that doesn't really end well for any organization. So to your question, yes, a platform is needed to understand all that. But I think you just need an all up one view of everything. Pipeline is a good one. I mean, there's other things we can measure. We're just interested in it. Do we have the right pipeline for the business? Not okay, what's marketing bit? What's this? Because that gets into a hole. My traffic lights great, your traffic lights bad and it's not really a sort of teaming kind of discussion, it creates more division. So my recommendation definitely have that all up measure that brings all the functions together but don't obsess around trying to then divide it up because ultimately we're just trying to see how can we move the business forward collectively versus trying to splinter everyone off.

24:51
Dom Hawes
We've touched on creating a revenue generation engine to drive growth and we've talked about route to market too but these things only work if you've got a team that can execute and that is not a given these days. John, what do you think is happening in the talent market and how do you think the next twelve to 18 months look?

25:10
John Watton
Being in tech software, we're in a sort of perfect storm at the moment which is probably going to explode. That there's basically been a lot of high growth, a lot of money come into tech. Money has been cheap for companies to raise and so there's definitely been a lot of investment in building teams, growing teams and paying for talent. So it's crazy right now in terms of in my sector for the sorts of salaries some companies want to offer, whether they're private equity funded, VC funded or public companies. But of course, what we're seeing right now is a little bit of a meltdown in some companies and layoffs in big and small organizations as people have overhead or the typical common theme is things aren't growing as fast as we thought and we have to sort of trim back a bit and fortunately, let some people go.

25:55
John Watton
But that hasn't helped. So people are moving between all sorts of companies. We've had a lot of people join, we've had some people go and it's the same in every single company. So what's going on right now is there's been companies have had a lot of money to build in talent and the only thing I would say is coming back to our discussion around what's needed in marketing is what are they really paying for? When you take that role and any individual to do their diligence around effectively, do they just want you to go and execute stuff or is it really going to be a meaningful experience in the business? So a lot of movement, crazy salaries being thrown around I think that's all going to come to a halt pretty soon.

26:35
Dom Hawes
It's not a nice thing to say but it's true. Good people, really good people are very hard to find and that's not going to change, is it?

26:42
John Watton
No, and that's always been the case. It's funny, I've written down three things here when we're talking about the sort of talent I look for and curiosity is one that I've had and I just don't get people who work in marketing who aren't curious about what's happening in marketing because it's so easy, right? I mean we're not double entry. Bookkeepers in finance and we can go in our lives. I want people to bring in what's going on in some of the social channels, think about those things. The second thing I look for then is an element of they're happy to take a risk. Risk was a very loaded term in the past. We have to bet all of our budget and cross our fingers now. We can be testing and learning all the time, so why not try as crazy? It sounds a TikTok channel.

27:20
John Watton
I don't know. We can drive a few days, spend a bit of money. Doesn't work, no harm to us. We just move on and do something else. If it creates engagement with our audience, why don't we continue with that? And then the final one from me is based on everything we said is we always talk about tech. It's kind of cliche now. You got to be comfortable with change to be in this business. We change every month, every quarter, every year. No, it's about I need people who actually can drive that change. You can bring that curiosity test and learning to help us evolve the way we're doing things and allowing us to change and evolve because it's a competitive game. It's a noisy game. Marketing, it's a competitive game and we have to stay ahead in any of that kind of final mile advantage.

27:57
John Watton
We can get through any of this. Thinking is really what we need to continue to drive and evolve the business. Wow.

28:04
Dom Hawes
Well, guys, on that note, I think I'm going to say that's a wrap for today. Thank you very much indeed, John and Adam, both for your time today. I think it's going to make a really epic show, so thank you.

28:16
John Watton
Welcome.

28:16
Adam Greener
Thank you. Thank you.

28:19
Dom Hawes
Well, what a great interview. We are nearing the end of the show and as always, there's loads to talk about. So first off, I want to pick up on something John said right at the beginning of the show when we asked him how B2B marketing teams need to evolve in the future. And I think he made three pretty important points, like from a vendor or an in house point of view, you need to forward fill your teams with talent. Not something we advocate in the agency world, I hasten to add. It's called a hiring ahead of the curve. But in house, forward, fill your teams with talent. Secondly, identify exactly what they should be measuring and focusing on when it comes to data. And thirdly, always have in mind the customer journey. And what I love about the answer is kind of how it runs.

29:01
Dom Hawes
Iteratively like it's kind of in the order in which you need to establish the process, get strong talent, tackle the data, and then make sure that those things are working together to make the customer experience as strong as it can. That message is accurate, it's clear, and basically it's a process I think that every marketing team can follow. The second point I want to pick up on from our conversation today was the importance of place in marketing. And it was great having John on the show because of his experience and his time at Adobe. When we're talking about tech businesses that have dealt with scaling up, there are really few stronger examples than Adobe, and they did some really radical and kind of at the time, unpopular things, but in hindsight super smart. They created a business that today is really essential for creators and companies all the way up and down the food chain.

29:47
Dom Hawes
They found a commercial model that really worked and they stayed ahead of the market. And how did they do that? Well, you heard it already today. They thought about the customer and their point of view. They made it easy. They gave the customer choice and they continued to innovate. You know, it's almost becoming a cliche on Unicorny, but we return to the same mantra time and time again. It always comes back to value. And finally, from today's conversation, I want to talk about people. Today's episode has specifically been about scaling a B2B tech business. And although there's loads of information people can take away if they want to scale any other kind of business, it's definitely true in tech, definitely true in other businesses. No more so actually, of course, than in my own. You need the right people and you need the right talent if you want to grow.

30:30
Dom Hawes
And if you do want to scale, you're probably better off defining the kind of people that you're looking for. Then you put them in a room together, whether that's virtual or otherwise, and give them freedom to do great work, even in periods of great uncertainty, that doesn't change. So what a great show. Thank you so much to John Watt for coming in and sharing so much insight with us. And John, I really hope you will come back because we really enjoyed having it in the studio. So thank you. And of course, thank you to the amazing Adam Greener from Digital Radish for sharing hosting duties with me today. Next week on Unicorn wow, do we have a treat. I say that all the time. Boy, do we have a tree view. But we genuinely do. I've got to find a different way of saying that, but really you need to tune in.

31:17
Dom Hawes
Next week we have Nicki's and Shane Redding in the studio. If you tuned into the Christmas special which we released on the 16 December, you will have heard a soups are a little taste of what we're going to talk about. It's a really big subject. It's an existential subject for every marketer. And if you're a CEO or your CFO, you really need to listen to this because they're talking about marketing, the deprecation of marketing and the damage that it does to business, ie. If you do not treat your marketing like a strategic resource, you are going to wind up in trouble. And at the heart of this maybe and something we're going to discuss, is the Chief Revenue Officer eating Marketing's breakfast. Tune in next week to find out more.

32:05
Dom Hawes
Thank you for listening today's show.

32:08
Dom Hawes
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32:10
Dom Hawes
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Dom Hawes
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32:34
Dom Hawes
Unicorny page on LinkedIn or connecting to me on LinkedIn. My name is Dom Hawes. H-A-W-E-S. You've been listening to Unicorny with me, Dom Hawes. Powered by Selby Anderson, the marketing group that helps complex businesses win the future, Unicorny is conceived and produced by Selby Anderson. We've created support from one fine play. Nicola Fairley is the executive producer.

32:56
Dom Hawes
Connor Foley is the series producer.

32:58
Dom Hawes
Casual Faruzia is the Superb audio engineer and editor, and the episode is recorded at turnmillstudios.co.uk. Thank you for listening and we will see you in the next one.